Hey there folks! Another special one for today. I had the chance to interview up and coming writer/ artist Kevin Alvir on his debut graphic novel Lisa Cheese & Ghost Guitar: Attack of the Snack. Kevin was super sweet and engaging (and very patient with the fact I was sick!) and I highly recommend the book. Without further ado…
Thank you so much for joining me, Kevin. I recently read LISA CHEESE AND GHOST GUITAR: ATTACK OF THE SNACK and I loved it. It was so fun and had this electric energy to it which is why I love comics. I’m excited to get this chance to talk to you about it. So, my first question is: LISA CHEESE AND GHOST GUITAR started off as a webtoon project. Was it difficult adapting it into a graphic novel format?
Oh, I think when I did the webtoon I thought I could do it like a normal comic book. The thing about Webtoon is you look at it on your phone, and because it’s on your phone it’s all squished in so you don’t have the same layout. You can’t do six panels a page, you have to do one panel. It was quite easy overall; I got guidance from the editor-in-chief of Top Shelf [Chris Staros] to do it as a six panel comic like AMAZING SPIDER-MAN by Steve Ditko. Doing webtoons is a different beast and I don’t think I have a great grasp on scrolling to read and what that experience is like.I think that answered your question!
Yeah, it did! I gave the webtoon a read and it’s much more like a traditional comic. Something that has never quite clicked with me about webtoon comic culture is that it tends to be one panel at a time. When you read comics physically, your eyes have a movement pattern controlled by panel layouts. When you lack that it interrupts the flow for me.
Lisa Cheese is often a very relatable character. Did you intentionally have her reflect some of the angst of millennials and post-millennial generations and their experiences growing up and trying to find a job, or was it a by-product ?
Yeah – I don’t really know the strata’s, or all of the generations, but I wrote about my experience. If it’s relatable to me I’m sure it’s relatable to whatever generation is reading it. I feel like the book was definitely about that. Part of it is a fun action adventure fantasy and the other part of it is my place to like, bitch about the world especially work stuff. In following my dreams and moving to the big city, maybe I was an idiot but I felt like I was living out this TV/Movie fantasy. ‘I’m going to move to the city and be a folk singer!’ I thought, and I ran into all these things that make living so hard, you know. Jobs and paying rent and getting by. The LISA CHEESE story is a place for me to vent that life is tough and I wanted to illustrate that for other people too. Hopefully other people get it, and I’m glad some people do.
Yeah. I got recommended the book by Comic Book Couples Counseling [The podcast – check them out] and they mentioned how relatable it is and that to me is really appealing to me. I think you really captured the universal feeling of artists; I want to create, but I also have to, you know, pay rent and get everything in on time. How am I going to create when I spend so much time doing everything else?
Yeah.
Your characters often speak their minds very directly. They say exactly what they think or how they feel. Is this a style quirk or do you find that it helps with the narrative?
I don’t really know what the intention behind that was, but I thought it was funnier to have people do it – especially Linda. I feel like people say things and there’s always a between the lines subtext of what they are ‘really’ saying. I just thought; What if, in my world, people just straight up said what they thought? Instead of this Tango of like, ‘Hope you’re having a nice day Lisa Cheese!’ when the meaning is ‘What are you doing with your life?’ I thought it would be more direct to have them say what they felt. Maybe in my fantasy world people are very direct about what they are feeling so you know how to interact with that. It’s a fantasy to have people be very real.
That’s a really fair point. I think a lot of stuff gets caught up in the subtext and a lot of writers focus on making it as subtle as possible, but sometimes you kind of need it to not be subtle. Sometimes you need characters to just plainly say stuff. It adds a lot of humour as well.
How did you come up with the core plot concept of ATTACK OF THE SNACK? The rivalry storyline between these food chains.
Yeah, almost like the restaurant wars of Earth City. I don’t know, really. I had a meeting with Chris Staros and I was talking about the web-comic, and he said to me it would work great as a graphic novel. He asked me to come up with an idea, but I’d never written a long-form thing before. I asked him if there were books I needed to read or research on how to construct a story and he told me to just draw and see what comes out. I thought that was the best advice he could’ve given me. I was drawn to the idea of a fast-food chain, sort of like Chipotle – Do you guys have Chipotle?
No, we don’t.
Some sort of crappy fast food chain that’s proliferating. It seemed to be something in my mind that was coming out onto the page. As the book progressed it started to become clear it was about colonising, not through war but through food. That kind of concept seemed fun and entertaining to me, and I got to have hamburger henchmen. It’s really ridiculous to have a fast food chain run by witches and a cabal of dark wizards.
That’s a great point actually. As I was reading it, I could see the commentary on what I think is called Starbucking [It’s not, turns out I subconsciously borrowed that word from Edgar Wright’s THE WORLD’s END] where local stores are replaced by these big chains, like local coffee shops being replaced by Starbucks. I think you hit the nail on the head with that in the book. The company taking over is a monotonous machine.
I feel like I have heard the word Starbucking before. I’ve been a musician and had bands and sometimes it’s so hard to just be an indie band. It seems like everything has to be streamlined and you have to have a business model. There’s this big fight against being squashed by big business. I want to have my indie rock club and see a cool band play. We lose the purity of things when it gets replaced by commercial, streamlined machinery.
I loved the usage of music in the book. I’m also a musician and there’ some music questions later on. I think all the time about people who release songs and albums and are told they ‘came out fully formed.’ It’s actually because we didn’t see the process of them getting to that point. With the internet now, we see everything and that full process. You aren’t afforded the time to figure yourself out first. You have to appear fully formed to give in to the myth. Lisa has that traumatic experience, losing an arm at an open mic night, and I think that ties into that. She’s trying to get there but can’t get her foot in the door.
My next question I asked to all my guests, are you inspired by any media outside of comics, such as films or games?
Oh yeah. One of my favourite shows ever is SIX FEET UNDER. I’ve talked about it with some other people too. It’s one of the most beautifully written shows ever, about living life in the face of death and the way that they write so poetically, every episode being a nugget of wisdom. I love 30 ROCK, and Tina Fey’s projects and I’m inspired by that kind-of 80 jokes a minute style. I love Danny McBride and THE RIGHTEOUS GEMSTONES. I love a lot of comedies. I love cartoons like ADVENTURE TIME, and the influence of that is very prevalent in all that I do. I know it’s a hot topic right now but I do love the Marvel movies, especially when they get kind of whacky. I like THOR: LOVE AND THUNDER, crucify me. I love the risks that he took to even make that. I just love good stories and stuff that moves me or makes me laugh. After doing music for so long , I learned the flow of stories from doing music. Prestige cable TV is very inspiring to me, ahaha.
That’s a really interesting thing actually. Obviously with prestige shows, each episode tells its own story but there’s a larger story per season and then over the whole show. That’s similar to how comics and graphic novels work, with issues and then trades and then series. Both are serialised mediums. I’ve yet to see THE RIGHTEOUS GEMSTONES but everyone’s been recommending it to me since SUCCESSION ended.
I just got into it recently. There’s something about it that just works with me. Danny McBride is from where I’m from so there’s something about his work that resonates with me.
So my next question was, there’s a very noticeable acid-punk style to this comic. Was that intentional?
Oh, that’s interesting. I can’t say I’m familiar with acid punk. When you say that, it brings to mind the title pages. It’s both yes and no. It wasn’t a conscious thing – I was moved to do something that was kind of classic Marvel, but with this punk-zine look and feel to it. It wasn’t intentional but there was something in the water, shall we say.
I think those two influences combined lead to that. So, my next question is; music both plays an important role in character and plot. Did music help you when creating the comic?
Yeah. I loved making music for a long time, but the comic was my platform to tell a deeper story than what I felt music could allow me to do. I wanted the characters to also write songs and sing though. There’s also this idea that the pursuit of making music is adventurous. When I told my folks I was going to move to New York to make music, I wanted to do it to play in bands and make a name for myself. Try to do something. It was very risky but it was something I felt like I had to do for my inner being. Music to me was a crusade I was on. I wanted to be somewhere where there was a lot of that going on; there wasn’t a lot of it where I’m from, and so being around a lot of music and musicians seemed like the holy grail of existence.
That makes sense. You can see how that inspires the characters, especially Lisa. When you see glimpses of her family – a subplot I loved, because it fleshed out her reasons why she wants to stay even in spite of her bad experiences – it showed that to Lisa, music was the adventure in and of itself. It became her call to adventure. You can even see that in Rossferatu. He’s desperate to make music, as detestable as he may be.
How many Rossferatu’s I’ve met!
We all know one.
At least one Rossferatu.
This is also music related, but are there any albums you’d encourage fans of the comic to check out?
Ooo. Anything by BEAT HAPPENING, for one. Anything by THE TELEVISION PERSONALITIES, but especially their first album. The rest of their catalogue can be a little bleak, but it’s all very good. There’s a band called THE AISLERS SET, who I love. I don’t know if you’ve heard of them. Anything that they do! Those are the three holy grail bands for me.
That’s really interesting! I’m only familiar with TELEVISION PERSONALITIES, because my uncle was big into punk so I heard a lot of it by proxy. I’m a metalhead but I’ll try and listen to whatever. I’ll definitely check the rest out. So, you’ve recently been promoting a live concert with links to the comic; What helped you come up with such an idea?
It wasn’t really my idea. There was this music venue I used to play at a lot, and when the owner saw I had a book out, he reached out to me about having a book release show stacked with bands that I like. I said ‘Okay!’. It seemed like something I’d have never thought about doing. It makes sense, because It’s like putting together a show for a new record. I might play? I’m not sure, I might do a song. It was someone else’s idea, and I’ve just run with it. Some have inferred that it was a LISA CHEESE AND GHOST GUITAR musical rock opera, and sadly not. I’m not that developed in this world just yet. It was, in all honesty, that a venue reached out to me about doing a show.
I won’t lie, when I saw the post the first thing I thought of was THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW but with LISA CHEESE AND GHOST GUITAR. Full rock opera. Probably not that, but maybe eventually.
Maybe if there’s a bunch more books down the line I’ll try to put together a show like that. I used to be in a band with a girl named Lisa Goldstein, who played drums. Lisa Cheese is kind of modelled after her. They’ve informed each other, even if the internal journey is closer to myself. She has the same look. That’s a little side note, though.
My next question is, what was it like working with Top Shelf? Were they supportive, given that it’s quite a unique project in the comic’s sphere?
It was great! Back when I was making comics on my own, I didn’t know much about Top Shelf apart from all the James Kochalka work they put out. I love James Kochalka. Him and Jack Kirby are the two J.K’s who really inspire me. Top Shelf were really supportive. I came to them and said ‘Hey, I love James Kochalka – Here’s something I do, inspired by Jack Kirby as well, but it’s a little different.’ Chris Staros read it, and he helped develop me. I came to him through this mentorship program and after two meetings he said to me ‘I think we have something here, and Top Shelf is eager to work with you if you’re down with it’ and I was like ‘Yeah!’. I wanted that to happen, and they’ve been very supportive. Chris really gets me and my vision and after I was done with the book, I read up about Top Shelf and how much inventive, interesting stuff they put out. Before that, I didn’t really know. They have a wide pallet of stuff that they do, and have been nothing but supportive. I love that they understand me, and that when they read it, they come back to me with constructive feedback like ‘I love what you did here’ or ‘I love this through-line’. Those are just examples but they really examine and analyse my stuff and it’s not just ‘This isn’t like this other book we did so get out!’. They see me as my own person doing my own thing and I’m really grateful for that. It’s nice to talk to people who really understand the work and they help you understand yourself better too. It’s a great relationship.
It sounds like it. It sounds like one that’s built on being supportive and helping you flesh stuff out, which is fundamental in a business relationship to me. Always trying to help. You’ve mentioned him a couple times across the interview, but could you mention the influence that Jack Kirby has on this comic?
You know, it’s funny, because growing up as a kid – and I think I’ve heard other artists say this as well, and I felt it too – I would look at Kirby’s artwork and think it was cool but kind of weird and maybe a little ugly. As I got older I realised ‘Oh my god, this stuff is beautiful!’. I love how he layouts his inks, and as I got older I appreciated what he brought to the game. I love the dynamics he brought to the page. It really brought me back to when I was younger, flipping through my brother’s comics and seeing names like Jack Kirby, John Buscema. It brought me back to the feeling of sneaking into his room, looking at those old comics. When I emulate Kirby, it brings back that feeling and the childish joy I would get from it. Aside from how good Kirby was an artist, it also brings that experience to mind. Sneaking into a hidden world. That’s my big Kirby story, which I’ve never really thought about till now.
Yeah! Coming from a younger generation, there are different artists who had that impact on me. As I’ve gotten older, you go back to who inspired them, and it all traces back to Kirby and Ditko and Wally Wood. Those moments when Lisa transforms into a hulk-like state are amazing. It incited that same childish sense of joy as reading the classic Marvel stuff for me.
I have one more question; Is there more LISA CHEESE AND GHOST GUITAR to come?
I’ve just sent in an outline for Book 2. I do see a lot of life in this series, and I see them having more adventures. It’s definitely intended to be a series of graphic novels, and there will be at least a Book 2. Now that I’ve mapped out that, I have ideas for what Book 3 would be as well. As soon as I offload whatever story I come up with, there’s more brewing. Even with Book 2, there’s ideas that were already in my head as I finished Book 1. There’s going to be at least one more. I want more people to read it, not in a sleazy way – I find it so much fun to do and I really want to share it with people because it fills me with so much joy, and the other people who have read it feel similarly. I don’t know. I just want to make some really fun comics. I like how people have been re-reading it. I wanna keep making more of it, and have a fun, action-packed, relatable, touching comic book reading experience. If I can keep that going, that would be good. So yeah, there will be more! Sorry, I got a little long-winded!
No worries! For the record, getting off-topic is encouraged here. My last interview did as well. Something I loved about LISA CHEESE AND GHOST GUITAR was how much heart there was in it. I’ve read a lot of comics, and gotten burnt out on stuff. You start prioritising what’s worth it to you and your wallet. This was a warm, heartful series and I loved that. I also hope more people read it, because it’s fucking awesome.
Yeah. I used to get a lot of comics, but then I stopped when I learned how to drive and ended up purely focused on music. After a big breakup I went back to reading comics, and I’d go to stores and I could never find what I was looking for. LISA CHEESE AND GHOST GUITAR is the type of comic I want to see out there on the shelves. That’s my motivation.
This is the type of comic we need to see more of on the shelves, in my opinion. Anyways, thank you so much for coming, and I hope you have a good rest of your day too.
Thanks, man you too! Hope you feel better soon!
This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity, from a recording of a call. All images and intellectual property belong to Kevin Alvir. Lisa Cheese & Ghost Guitar: Attack of the Snack is available now from Top Shelf Productions, an imprint of IDW Publishing. Check it out.
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